The Emotional Side Of Raw Food Transformation
Michael Bedar, Author of Sweet Healing, shares the emotional, psychological side of the raw food transformation.
Welcome! My name is Sara Grove, co-founder of Raw Food Magazine, and today we have Michael Bedar–Co-director of the East Bay Healing Collective, movie producer, and now author–with us to share more about his recent project and teach us about the psycho-emotional side of healing your body with raw food. Welcome Michael!
Michael: Thank you so much for having me. I’m thrilled to be here.
Sara: It is our pleasure. In the world of raw food, nutrition and healing we talk a lot about the physical changes that happen when you clean up your diet. We love to talk about the weight loss, energy, the clear skin…
For you, though, the psychological changes and the emotional shift you experienced from eating raw foods seems to be the most impacting part. I’m excited to hear your take on this.
Is that true for you? Before we discuss your new novel and the work you did with diabetes, can you share with us the changes you experienced after eating more raw food?
Michael: Yes, I’d be happy to. And yes, that is true. The psychological and emotional changes for me were very pronounced.
I spend a lot of time in my heart and head. It just has always been the way I am. Before raw foods I felt like getting up [in the morning] was like this existential drag. I looked at the negative side. I felt tired and each day was about getting through another day, that kind of a thing.
I started from that sludgy, dim everything-had-an-excuse place. As I ate more raw, I started feeling this fire and an energy and a life come alive inside me.
I want to describe the aliveness that I felt after eating raw foods, but the transition was important. I started from that sludgy, dim everything-had-an-excuse place.
I didn’t believe raw food could really help. I just believed I was like that because the life was just like that. I was just skeptical and uninterested and disengaged–an emotional habit that I built up to deal with the negative perspective that I created for myself.
As I ate more raw, I started feeling this fire and an energy and a life come alive inside me, I guess really all the way to neurologically and mentally and spiritually and emotionally. I didn’t have any negativity going inside me (food or thoughts or people) so I could see the excuses I made up from my apathetic habit.
I could see that my life is actually really good and I’m just making excuses (laughs) for the old habits I had.
So while eating raw food I just deprogrammed myself from making excuses as much as I could, step-by-step. But it wasn’t really a mental thing, it was more of a feeling thing. It was like I’d much rather go toward the feeling of possibilities and aliveness. I just wanted to go there and the only thing holding me back were my negative thoughts.
Sara: Yes. This was a very intentional process for you.
Michael: Yes, I dove into the most emotional and personal development side of raw food that I could find, which makes sense for who I was and for what I was going through.
I like the holistic model of health, you know, like Dr. Cousens at the Tree Of Life Rejuvenation Center–I did meet him along the way–I like the meditation aspect of it and the philosophical aspect that he brought to his community.
Holistic health based in gardening and eating the food right out of the earth and raw foods and yoga…
I liked it all.
Sara: Wow, so you really dove into the whole world of raw food and sustainability and holistic health. I’m excited to learn more, but first, how did you get into all this to begin with?
I just have a buzz and a sense of possibility that I had never handled before.
Michael:(Laughs) Well, it really started with a group of people I met. Because I wanted to like be a little more like them. I just saw a light and once they told me what they were up to I wanted it, too.
When I got their invitation to go to a raw food party, I immediately accepted. There, people you know were speaking, David Wolf was speaking and Dr. David Jubb was speaking. The local scene was present, bringing raw food cakes and raw food salads and raw food dishes, you know. I had a great time and I started feeling like…I actually don’t know what to do with myself the way I feel! I just have a buzz and a sense of possibility that I had never handled before so that actually took me a while to like handle that sense of life.
Sara: Yeah, [laughter] you feel so good and it’s such a new feeling and you’re thinking “So, now, what do I do?”
Michael: Yeah that’s exactly what it was like! Right.
Sara: So let’s get some perspective here. Give us an example of how you may have felt, your typical state, say, two weeks before this experience and then what a typical day feels like for you now.
Michael: Yes. Well, I spend a lot of time in my heart and head it kind of like I always had just kind of the way I was. It was more like getting up was existential like drag I looked at the negative side. I felt tired and it was about getting through another day that kind of that kind of thing so you know.
I, so I don’t really need to describe the aliveness again that I felt afterwards, but just the transition from that like sludgy and grainy, dim feeling where everything had an excuse… I was like that because life was like that. I was just skeptical and uninterested and disengaged–a habit that I built up just to to deal with the negative side of life I kept focusing on.
As I started feeling the fire and energy and a sense of life come alive inside me, I guess I felt it all the way to neurologically and mentally and spiritually…and emotionally. I didn’t have any more negativity bubbling up from inside me so I could really see the excuses I made up for myself. I could see that life is actually really good and I’m just not acknowledging it.
So, step by step I kept choosing to move toward this new sense of possibility and aliveness. I just wanted to go there, so much more than where I had been, and the only thing holding me back were my thoughts. It takes effort and repetition to reprogram your thought habits, but it’s totally possible and changes everything.
Sara: Yes, that’s really exceptional. Well said, thank you for sharing it. We hear a lot about the physical transformation that goes on when you clean up your eating and turn to raw foods. But, what goes on emotionally and psychologically can be just as-often more–dramatic.
After experiencing these changes, waking up to your sense of possibility and energy, what did you decide to do then?
Michael: Well, since I was so interested in the emotional and personal development side of raw food, I really connected with Dr. Cousen’s holistic model at the Tree Of Life Rejuvenation Center. So, I decided to leave San Diego, where I was working at the Super Computer Center.
With my experience working in video I had a possible career there at the University of California San Diego. Instead, I went to the Tree of Life and signed on as a media person there to help the center grow. I became a student there. Eventually I became a teacher there.
Sara: Wow, that’s really neat how you moved in that direction. And, I know you’ve used your video/tech background a lot since then, really growing the reach and influence and message of raw food.
Michael: Well, yeah, besides working at the Tree of Life itself, a small group of people and I came together to help make Simply Raw: Reversing Diabetes In Thirty Days.
That really touched a lot of people. Today I just feel very grateful, well I just went on a tour for my book. Which, we can actually trace everything we have been talking about–the emotional side of the raw food transformation, through my time at the Tree of Life, through my contribution to Simply Raw, right through to now–with my book.
People throughout my book tour still thank me for the Simply Raw documentary and it’s such a good feeling.
Sara: Yes, of course! It’s a pretty incredible piece of work. I’m excited to get to hear about your newest project, your raw food novel, in just a second.
Really quick, though, I’d love to hear more about your method of inquiry. Why, diabetes? I noticed you also did your Master’s thesis work in Diabetes. Is that correct?
Michael: Correct. That’s a good question because I really like to see the world in much more open terms then labeling somebody with a diagnosis.
I mean, truly you have a lot more life inside you than any diagnosis can even begin to signify. They are [diagnoses] a systematic way of classifying cases that the medical conventional system uses to basically keep people in rigid boxes. That being said, they do on some scientific level describe a physiology of state and that is all they are useful for, in my opinion. They help something be measurable.
Until we are able to tune in to how we are feeling, sometimes the numbers and measurements can be very eye-opening for people. Which, it is interesting that I never had to go through that personally, but I really respect that other folks see numbers and see the changes in their actual categorization by the system and they see that as very inspiring.
When you’re going through that yourself from a certain-
I was fortunate that at twenty-two this kind of transformation began happening for me. But, people who go through life for fifty years seeing the world from a cooked point of view, they really do buy into those numbers. “Oh I am this. This diagnosis kinda does describe me.” They may realize they do identify with these numbers and the names of certain conditions.
And, you know, you can do away with the name of a condition. Sometimes it’s important first to realize “Hey, I might not need to actually be called a diabetic or a person with this or that.” And, then the next step is to believe “okay I can actually move these numbers.”
When you go from seeing these numbers (weight, blood pressure, cholesterol, insulin…) move then you think “oh, I can really tune in to how I feel and begin eating intuitively and begin living vibrantly and go through my day from a place of aliveness!”
But the numbers do help at that early stage. So, for more numbers: Diabetes affects twenty-five million people. And seventy-nine million people are living with pre-diabetes. So, diabetes was so prevalent and so measurable and so reversible, it was like a slam dunk kind of example to use for people.
Sara: Yes, certainly it is a powerful example. And diabetes is a condition which, still, the mainstream belief about it remains that once you have diabetes you are diabetic. There is an identity to it, a hopelessness to it. Even though, as the work you have been involved with has shown, diabetes can be reversed. Diabetic does not have to be a life sentence.
Michael: Right, so you asked about my master’s thesis, which is a great segway to that because I actually did a survey at the Tree of Life, Cousen’s School of Holistic Wellness Masters in live food nutrition. After two years of studying and research that you do as a student there, my thesis was a survey really asking two hundred people who responded to the survey, asking each each person one-hundred and five questions.
This meant the survey took forty minutes to do the and you didn’t really win much of an award for doing the survey (laughs). So, it actually shows how valuable health is to people, you know.
I had one-hundred people who went the natural route and one-hundred people who didn’t all answer the survey. That means in both camps it really matters when it says “this research will be used to help people find treatments and lifestyles that will better their life.”
They really cared enough about that to spend an hour of their lives with no pay off other than contributing to the research. So, I knew I was on to something important. And likewise the book is received with a lot of importance, too, because people realize that this can change their quality of life starting from an inner level.
So, the questions were questions about their eating–you know, “Did you change your eating when you experienced the diagnoses of diabetes?” Or, “Did you just stay with the pharmaceutical method?” You know, I don’t like to judge. I wanted to see if people chose the pharmaceutical method only or both.
One hundred participants had done some sort of natural health change. I found it very interesting to ask questions about their actual results and how satisfied they are with their health outcomes at this moment, in regards to quality of life, freedom and independence or addiction and dependence, how mobile they are, etc. All those, all those good outcomes you want to have. And then I asked the most important questions.
I asked a lot of questions about their mental attitude, beliefs and world views about themselves and the world around them.
Sara: So fascinating. What sort of trends did you start to notice?
Michael: That’s a great question because that’s what leads to the whole book.
The trends are–it’s interesting, you know–the people all came from more or less the same country and the same culture. It wasn’t if you come from Nevada you are likely to do it this way, if you come from Arizona you are likely to do it that way. It wasn’t like that at all. They all spoke the same language, the same age groups…all these things were so similar, so their demographics were not the determining factor in choosing which way to go.
I found out about their primary information sources, which was a weak trend. Another weak trend was how determined they were. And, how much support they have in the social world around them was a slightly stronger trend.
But, the biggest two trends with a really strong correlation were:
a sense of agency, believing that they are proactive and that they make a difference in their life. That was one strong trend and the second one was, something you eluded to earlier, almost like foreshadowing…
Emotional honesty. I think there’s two reasons why emotional honesty correlated so strongly with being interested in trying natural health methods.
One, is when you are honest about where you are, and you can actually access that, you can view it more from a witness point of view and then say “okay, if I’m here then I know I want go there.”
If I feel scared–oh my god, I just got this terrible news and I don’t know if I can handle it and what am I going to do… Despair or sadness…this is totally bringing me down.
If I really want see my kids grow up and I think I might not be able to, it might bring me to sadness. Or to experience excitement, to be able to access that I do feel exited and I actually have good news and things got better and I feel great about that!
That kind of emotional currency in the participant’s lives gave them an ability to use that energy to move from where they were to where they want to be.
So those were the two main most impacting attitudes, human factors, in the people with the most successful and natural outcomes overcoming diabetes.
Sara: That is so interesting, that those two things–a sense of agency and emotional honesty–above everything will have the most impact. But, it also completely makes sense.
So, now, in writing your novel Sweet Healing, you will be able to explain it better than me; but, my understanding is that you are laying out a roadmap to healthy living. That it is a holistic life plan, if you will, delivered through storytelling.
What was your mission in writing this book?
Michael: Well said. The mission is to give people a novel that they can really enjoy being entertained by, being engaged by the characters and the plot flow and learn step-by-step ways, like you said, on the path of natural healing and transformation.
So I used that data. I mean, the genesis of the story was to use my background–I had all this facilitating experience, help with the movie Simply Raw and at the Tree of Life, having my own program shortly thereafter…
But it was a guy name Mike Chate I want to give credit to who said, “You’re in the perfect position to write this as an allegory. Yes, write your thesis, write it up and publish it if you want to. But, I recommend you do what I did.” He had written a book called Loops, which was an allegory about an different field, not health, but he said you could do what I did except with health and nutrition.
So I am like “Thanks Mike! I’m going to do that.” I just started sitting at a desk and told myself “Okay, I am now a novelist. I’m a story teller here.” And I tuned in to what I’ve seen of people all around me for years and what path they go on. I reflected on what are some of the key internal transitions that happen in terms of thought forms, emotional states and belief changes.
And then the actual steps of eating more raw foods and talking about that with your friends and family and gaining a more embodied sense of yourself as like consciousness in the body that wants to express itself through exercise and things like yoga modalities.
I wrote it from a point of view of a middle-of-the-country, you know, this is regular blue-collar family who worked themselves up from the poor in this middle, almost upper-middle class because they had that agency–that drive–to make the most out of life already. But, they never applied it to their health.
That was one way that the thesis actually helped. Because I learned that pro-activity was really important. I had to give the characters some seed of being proactive from the very beginning. It’s not the easiest thing to generate out of the blue.
So the book does show some of the benefits of having that kind of pro-activity from the beginning. Even before he gets the wake-up call about his health you get to tell that he’s a person with inner drive. The characters begin resonating with the readers and vice versa, the reader resonates with the characters because they can sense that, that almost heroic nature inside every person.
Sara: I love what you said there… I think that’s an important term I would like to dive into a bit more: the ‘wake-up call.’
I love the premise of your book. I mean, reading an intriguing novel can be an emotional experience in itself just reading it! Your book may be a wake-up call for many people. But, I’m curious to hear more about your perspective and experience since you did not have a diagnostic ‘wake-up call’ to start living healthy.
One of the reasons I am so intrigued is because I was misdiagnosed with cancer a few years ago. It was a paperwork mix-up that totally took me by surprise, more like shock. But, it was this time period of thinking I had cancer, thinking I had this diagnosis that I didn’t actually have, that I researched and started eating raw food and starting doing so many things that have totally changed my life since then.
I always wonder if there would have been a way where I did not need to be told I was dying, to actually start caring more about health and making different decisions. At what point would I have made a change if that mix-up didn’t happen?
So, for you it seems like you found your wake-up call and started down a new path without being given some terminal, life-threatening news.
Michael: Wow. That is very interesting Sara.
I didn’t, I didn’t know that about your story. And I am fascinated because it does-
the fact that it was a misdiagnosis plays with that whole notion of what is a wake-up call and what do we really need to be awakened. In some definitions, ‘awakeness’ is actually living consciously without emergency (laughing).
Sara: (laughing) I love that, I will remember that. Living consciously without emergency.
Michael: Because that’s why in so many traditions around the world, people talk about the practice. Life is a daily practice. Being awake is something that is done every day. And, people have dedication to study their most inspiring scriptures or speeches or whatever it may be on a regular basis.
So you remember the hunger for truth and the hunger for consciousness. You know, there’s that song ‘when life seems like easy street, there’s danger.’
So it’s important to remember all the time that we’re always essentially vulnerable or always essentially able to move to higher evolution. And, if you get kind of stagnant or complacent, you’re going to sort of court an emergency to keep you awake . I really believe nature fills the vacuum and if you’re not practicing growing you might get forced into it.
Nature can cause a vacuum in several other ways two. One of the ways–and this is why so many traditions of awakeness and consciousness always talks about service towards others, to help other people–because one is your heart just expands to see their crisis as your own. So you will always be on your edge by helping other people. And the other thing is that we have this inborn nature to care and nurture, at least to some degree most of us do, I think all of us do.
And, if you are not somehow helping others that inborn need to nurture is going to turn to the closest case to help which is yourself. And if you are not nurturing yourself on a regular basis, you’ll make yourself sick so that you can nurture something.
Sara: Yes! I have noticed that. Your body starts telling you louder and louder and louder “Take care of me!” until you finally listen.
Michael: Yeah, so those are some interesting ways to remember to-
You know, your case of the false diagnosis gave you a wake-up call to transform your life with raw foods and lots of other ways it sounds like.
Sara: Yeah it did, which I’ve continued practicing well after the event mix-up was resolved and the hospital called to say ‘no worries.’
Michael: Yes, so you continued. I mean, it becomes a lifelong thing. You didn’t just stop because… And in my book, too, the characters also reach a point…well it’s a novel so I’m not going to give it away-
Sara: Yeah, don’t give away the surprises!
Michael: You’ll have to read it and find out, but there will definitely be a book two. This is book one, actually, and it’s an inter-generational event. I mean, when you look at it, life is long on some eternal level, but also your individual life is like a chain, a link in a chain and we go back generations and generations into the ancestry in our past.
Our life is a contribution to generations and generations in to the future. So you know, you make such an impact on an everyday basis far beyond everyday awareness. You’ll be in impacting the earth and the next generation and the next books are going to show that. These characters’ offspring and how they carry on the healing and the awakening that happens in book one. So those are all reasons, like you said, to keep up the daily practice. Even after your misdiagnosis was cleared up or whatever it was, everything became cleared up for you but you kept going for the benefits far beyond the emergency crisis. And that is really beautiful.
Sara: Yes, it is probably something you experienced, too. It’s like, once you experience how good it feels to feel good… Once you’ve woken up, if you will, to a certain level and you experience how rich and wonderful life can feel, it is hard to forget.
I’m bringing it back in now. We just talked about the big scale there, the millennia and our ancestry an all of that. But now, lets bring it back in to this day. The novel is chock full of drama and that sometimes does include the crisis.
And it’s in this moment that everything happens.
Gene and Hope are the couple that the book focuses on. Also their son, Jim, and his partner Dana and then there are the mentors who appear out of the woodwork–their names are Don and Rema. And, then there are other key characters that pop up throughout the book.
But, Gene and Hope, they represent this middle-of-the-country family, the regular town life and suddenly Gene is confronted with an unexpected emergency where it turns out that he had declined into a condition that put him into a very trying medically acute situation based on a chronically developing degeneration.
And, he had to deal with it. He just had to actually deal with it. He couldn’t deny it any longer. He couldn’t live behind the veil and pretend that everything was okay any longer. And then so much love comes once he, once he awaken to that, even just acknowledging the problem, which he couldn’t deny because he woke up in a tangle of problems.
But the love of Hope and the love from his family and the love of Jim and Dana who visited him from college. It’s the love–and the book is dedicated to everyone who is loved enough to heal him or herself–loving enough.
Sara: I love that!
Michael: So that’s the beginning. And then, from love everything can be looked at with fresh eyes. That includes how his body works, what he’s been doing to it, how he’s been evading some things he had an intuition of but he didn’t want to look at it. But, the courage to look at things honestly comes from love and then the courage to act on them comes from love.
It’s never presented as easy, and that’s why there is so much emotional writing in this book. There are conversations all the time, and resistance combined with desire. He wants to heal, his family wants to help him, but everyone faces their habits and resistances. But step by step–two steps forward maybe half a step back–changes occur.
And the mentors that come out of the woodwork speak a language that they can recognize. They speak in metaphors through the things that he loves. You know, Gene loves baseball, Gene loves cars, you know.
Jim, their son, and Dana they love literature. They are students and they like literature. And Hope loves nature. She loves to watch the swans land in the river. And all these metaphors–cars, baseball, rivers, stories–they all become sources of wisdom that can be applied to changing, to forming raw food interest and pursuing a holistic life.
I brought out everything that they already know because I wanted to encourage people to use what they already know.
Sara: Interesting. Yes, that is the most powerful way for us to learn is in using and relating to subject matter we already understand.
It sounds like a fabulous read, and to zero in for a moment and bring it home to the present moment, to what we can do today in our own lives…
Two of the biggest things that stood out in your research about people who were able to make healthy changes and sustain these changes were
- A sense of agency: Believing we actually have the power to do something to change our circumstance and change our health, and
- Emotional honesty: Being able to see ourselves clearly and admit where we are truly are without judgment.
What are some practical ways you recommend we can incorporate these two characteristics–agency and emotional honesty–in our daily lives? Today? This week?
Michael: Mmm, that’s a great question.
Sometimes it is slowing down.
I’m going to answer that, also, with the idea that there are seven foundational practices that come in throughout the novel and one is slowing down enough to notice your life force. And to sense it in what is alive around you. Giving yourself a chance for your mind to be quiet enough to feel your pro-activity and to feel where you are at.
A quiet mind is undeniably key. It is essential.
And then really allow yourself to be supported and know that your agency, even in the smallest ways, isn’t enough to support someone else. So, the unit of well-being is often the household. There is going to be drift, you know, to the average of the household or the group of people living together or those who live closest together.
So, pull together because every little conversation is showing some sort of agency. You have agency on each other’s moods with every thought and every word. So move together even with just one other person or a family or community or whatever. Do it together.
Sara: I like that. It is something we don’t often think about intentionally, but has such a big impact on us, is the words and habits and energy of those we surround ourselves with on a day-to-day basis.
This can be a tough thing when making changes to your health and lifestyle. Because just because you are making positive changes doesn’t put you in a position to demand that your spouse or your children or your roommates have to change, too.
Michael: Yeah, it’s not about demanding someone else to change. It’s more in the context of-
Harvard, actually, conducted a study on what is lasting change. What are the key parts of lasting change? It turns out that even though I found out about this after I wrote Sweet Healing, every stage of Harvard’s conclusion is really represented in the novel.
So, they said number one is: decide what you want. Number two is commit to what you want. Number three, have a physical space for what you want to occur in or to practice getting what you want. And, four: Arrange life’s circumstances to support the practices of what you want.
The emotional honesty part helps you decide what you want and the pro-activity and agency part helps you commit to what you want.
Then, the physical space, in this case will be first your body, then your home, your kitchen and your cupboards and it would be where you shop and your whole home where you are living and the places where you eat and exercise–it would be all the physical spaces you occupy. Because nothing happens if it doesn’t have a physical place to happen in!
And number four is arrange life’s circumstances to be in alignment with what you want. The biggest circumstances in your life are two things: time and other people. And most of our time is taken up with obligations to other people, whether it’s work people or family people… So carve out the time that you are going to have these circumstances that support your life. Make sure you have the time for it.
And, ask that the people support your goals as well. Even if they don’t do it with you, which is certainly the best, just let them know or even decide for yourself that your circumstances that support your goal are the most important. You will vary your interaction with people depending on their support for your goal.
Sara: That is so powerful. What a practical system you just laid out there. If you are reading this or listening to this, read it again!
I’m curious, as we wrap this up, for you personally, what is something presently in your life–for 2016–what is something you are committing to in your own life that you really want?
I am committing to standing as an author with a clear intention of being of service to people.
I remember when my book first came out it was late November and I gave my first talk. In the first ten minutes I went from this thing being a birth process of eight years from research and writing and editing, eight years.
The first ten minutes of speaking I went from pre-birth to having this baby. I felt like I took on that I am now in the role of author to these readers, these are my readers. My goal is to really deepen that and to continue.
I had a very successful tour to New York, Boston, Philadelphia and I will continue to go places in the world that will be in line with this goal.
Sara: How wonderful, and thank you for being so open with us. I just want to congratulate you. That is such a big project and such a beautiful cross of creativity and teaching you brought into the world.
Michael: Thank you Sara.
Sara: The book is Sweet Healing: A Whole Health Journey and the author is Michael Bedar.
Tell us where we might get of a copy of this book?
Michael: Online at ReadSweetHealing.com
I also have the domain RawFoodNovel.com. And, there you will get it in both paperback and the Kindle editions.
And reviews on the Amazon site are much appreciated, too.
Sara: Definitely. Get yourself a copy, read it, enjoy it and review it!
Michael: You’ll also see where I’m touring on the events page of the calendar of ReadSweetHealing.com.
Sara: Wonderful! What’s the next stop for you?
Michael: Berkeley is tonight.
I just got back from ten places on the East Coast yesterday. I’m speaking also at Silicon Valley Healthy Bites and then I’ll speak at East West Bookstore in a few weeks and I’m also going to plan Denver, Seattle, Los Angeles, mid-west, Texas… I’ll be going a lot of places. Europe is calling so… (Laughing).
Sara: Europe is calling! [Laughs]
Well Michael, it is so great to talk to you, and for everyone listening, if you have a chance, go online to ReadSweetHealing.com or RawFoodNovel.com and get yourself a copy to be entertained and inspired to lead a healthier life.
Before you go, Michael, I have one last question.
What do you urge your readers to take away from reading Sweet Healing?
Michael: Take away your potential. See yourself.
The reason I named them Gene and Hope is because we all have our own inheritance, but our hope is what we can bring out from what we’re made of. Their names are Gene and Hope Curtain because if you peel away your own conditioning you will see behind the curtain how to go from your genes to your hope.
Sara: Ah, I just love that. We all are made up of a bunch of genes we can’t control, but we still have an enormous power to change our lives and our health.
Sara: Thank you so much, Michael, for coming on the show today. I’m excited for your book to be out in the world. Good luck with your speech tonight and the rest of your tour!
Michael: Thank you, Sara. Thank you for having me.
Want to ask Michael your own questions, order a copy of his new novel or find out what he’s been up to?
Visit him online to connect or tell him how much you enjoyed the interview 🙂